Tuesday, March 23

Lost: Season 6, Episode 9 Discussion

Insta-Reaction: Now that's more like it. When Lost's writers compared their story to The Stand, they weren't mucking around. The mythology of Lost leaps like Van Morrison, directly Into The Mystic with this episode and while I loved it, I have a feeling that this episode is going to fiercely divide viewers - either you're on-board with a struggle between "evil" and "good" or you're not. Those of you wanting a purely scientific resolution to this show are probably feeling a little disappointed right now (and now that I've taken a look at Chud's message board at can see that this is definately the case there). But with respect, Lost has made the "two sides: one dark, one light" theme explicit from the beginning. moaning about that now seems a little belated. In addition, while the conflict between these two men has taken on mythic/religious overtones, we know explicitly that both these figures are/were men.

I thoroughly enjoyed the story of Ricardo Alpert, loving husband, accidental murderer, deathrow convict, shipboard slave, Island arrival, Jacob-rep, and man of teetering faith. The way in which Lost has chosen to dramatize the struggle between "sin" and "salvation" in this season is extraordinary, and offers us a surprisingly complex look at human morality and the pull of opposing forces on the conscience and (if you believe in it) the soul.

As of tonight's installment I've made my peace with the whole answers thing. Lost seems committed to doling out their answers the same way that they always have - in small bites. Those bites are seeded into episodes that focus on the journeys of these characters, and in episodes like this one, those journeys are a portion of the answers themselves. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on in Ab Aeterno, and coupled with an enormously admirable performance by Nestor Carbonell, that makes it the best episode of the season as far as I'm concerned.

Your thoughts?

Original Post:

"I was set up 'from everlasting' (in Latin, 'Ab Aeterno'), from the beginning, or ever the earth was." -Proverbs 8:23

Ab Aeterno is the title of tonight's episode, and it has the potential to be an hour of revelations. Leave your thoughts on the episode here - I'll be by after it airs to give you my Insta-Reaction. One observation: the Bible quote above refers to God being set in Heaven "from everlasting, or "from eternity." This can also be seen to refer to Richard's condition, as he's been set on the Island for what has seemed an eternity, to serve Jacob's purpose. Also interesting: The wording of the King James translation ("set up from everlasting," as opposed to "furnished," or "appointed," as other translations have interpreted) reinforces the notion of being "set up," as in conned - a subject that Lost has been fascinated with "from everlasting." Many more thoughts to come in this week's Back to the Island column, out Thursday on Chud.com.


Edited to add: Apparently the episode runs six minutes long, so set your Tivos and DVRs accordingly.


  1. D U D E.. Nothing short of complete worldwide damnation. Desmond's not the only who's been saving the world (or dooming it) on the island.


    They are giving these actors some prime material to chew on...
    I loved seeing Titus Welliver again with Pellegrino and Pellegrino finally DOING something- that was a heck of a beatdown

  3. Not the best episode, but definitely head and shoulders above last weeks. Lighthouse, the Substitute and Dr. Linus are in the running for top spot with Sundown, LAX and this episode in the second tier with What Kate Does and Recon at the bottom of the pile... What Kate Does = definitely the bottom...

  4. I'm pretty confused by the negativity I've seen toward this one. I thought it was very, very strong.

    It sounds like people were disappointed by the focus on Richard in the ship, trapped there. I thought it was riveting. Different strokes, I suppose.

  5. I think that instead of replacing Jacob, they're going to reach the "end" that Jacob referred to. I think that that's why the island is under water in the x timeline, and I think that that's going to give this whole story a reason--what I mean is, if this kind of story has been playing itself out repeatedly, as has been suggested, then why is THIS story the one worth telling, if it's going to end the same way, that is? I posit that this is where it ends, and that the island will be rendered purposeless.

    Secondary and much weaker theory: That explains why the candidates get the second chances in the flash sideways, too, I think. They've conquered, perhaps, the evils in themselves. I mean... Sayid used his badness for good, maybe. I don't know. Most of them seem to be trying to redeem themselves.

    That's what feels most right to me, anyway.

  6. To flesh the last thought out a little more (I was in a hurry, and I'm sorry), there are certain things that we know won't happen:

    *The evil below the island can not be done away with. I don't mean that the island is useless in that it becomes unnecessary to contain evil. I mean that perhaps the need for Jacob (and even MiB) will become useless as the island, as a cork, is sealing "hell" more firmly after the end of these events.

    *The story has to end with either a replacement of Jacob or the end of the whole mess. I don't see how it could end knowing that everything we've seen will have to happen again.

    The reason I don't think that we'll see a replacement for Jacob is this: (SPOILERS)

    Future show titles an character centricities show us that all potential candidates will have flash sideways episodes. My feeling is that whoever replaces Jacob wouldn't NEED the type of second chance that the sideways timeline seems to offer. That coupled with the fact that the island is underwater... if the island is underwater, where would Jacob be stationed, you know?

    This also ties in with the brilliant "Second Snake" theory. If these characters are essentially freed after the sinking of the island, then it all holds up quite nicely, doesn't it?

  7. I'm with you Morse. Fantastic episode. And I totally wasn't expected to be sideswiped with "The Constant...too."

    - For everyone who felt last week's show moved along at too fast a clip.... they sure weren't afraid to show us Richard really suffer in chains for awhile this week, were they?

    - Remember all those lists of questions everyone was publishing before "LA X" premiered? "What the deal with the ageless Alpert?" was at the top of almost all of them. They gave us a chronological 35 minutes explaining this story, riddled with insight (and I felt clarity) into Jacob and the MIB. Plus Hurley used his super powers, told off Jack and won.

    - I love that LOST has no problem showing 10 minutes of subtitles.

    - I can't imagine how Smokey can be seen at this point as anything other than evil or at the least selfish, nefarious and destructive (which I'm pretty sure = evil). The stakes were laid out as "he gets off this island - he goes around infecting everyone on earth like he is doing here with lies and selfish but compelling motivations."

    - The Emperor wooed Vader with false promises and flattery until it was too late. Satan spun promises. Jacob doesn't offer you your heartfelt wish. Smokey learns what you want most and says "yeah, i'll give you that." Smokey also has revealed himself a liar.

    - It would seem that the roles of Jacob and the MIB are 9 parts "Old Testament" and 1 part "The Santa Clause."

    - With the wine in the jug allegory, I can't help thinking about a new parallel. By pushing the button in the Hatch, Desmond and the others saved the world by keeping a destructive physical force contained. Just like Jacob and the island itself keep the destructive spiritual force contained. In fact, most of the current candidates (save I think the Kwons) had a go at pushing the button to save the world back in season 2. There's more to this that I am missing, but what a fantastic way to prime us for the idea that these people could ultimately save the world through a single, repetitive maintenance job.

    - Anyone else catch how one minute Ilana was bruised and bandaged and accepting Jacob's request, and the next she was fresh faced and running her fingers through her hair to loosen it up?

  8. Im with morse on Richard's arc in a single story- as much as I would LOVE to see more about his job- this episode was sufficient to provide his background and how he got to where he was when we first met him.
    now... the question becomes, how did ben become so mixed up (presumably) with MIB if Richard was the direct intermediary... did he slack off with the cabin?

  9. You know, I went into this episode thinking, "Man, it would be hilarious if, knowing all of the answers we expect out of a Richard-centric episode, the producers gave us an hour of TV that told us nothing new at all." So, imagine my surprise when it turned out that that was exactly what they did, and it wasn't hilarious at all--it was compelling. The only new information this episode gave us was all character stuff--giving us Richard's emotional and psychological landscape, and showing us that Richard knows more or less exactly what we know at this point in the story.

    A few things I need to point out, though:

    ~Jacob and UnLocke's "argument" over human nature could be seen as a continuation of the little-seen cartoon GOD, THE DEVIL AND BOB.

    ~Suddenly Richard's surprise and suspicion that young Ben saw his died-off-the-Island mother has more nuance to it.

    ~I'm still surprised at just how much I cared whether Richard--a guy who has basically only had one or two scenes where he's acted as anything other than a bouncer or a stoic consul--was going to end up going back to the Beach or casting his lot with UnLocke. Lots of credit to Nestor Carbonell for making us care so much.

  10. It would not surprise me at all if when we get to the end of the series, we learn that the name of the man in black is Randall Flagg. That would be just the kind of thing the writers would do to drive us crazy. I loved this episode. It delivers answers in a way that I like, by just weaving them into the fabric of the story. We learned that the ship that was coming to the Island when MIB and Jacob were talking at the beginning of the season 5 finale was NOT the Black Rock, it was another ship. We learned what happened to the statue, how it got destroyed, how the Black Rock got into the middle of the jungle and just how long Richard has been there. I think we also learned that Richard was acting for Jacob, but maybe not on his direct orders for a lot of the time. I'm still curious about why Richard was apart of the whole Dharma purge that killed so many people. Was that on Jacobs orders? Here's a thought: Maybe since MIB seems to need people to help him get off the island, maybe the only way to stop the MIB from getting off the island is to kill everyone on it except the candidate that will replace Jacob. Just a though. Can't wait for the whole recap.

  11. I don't have a lot to add, except to join the chorus of praise for Nestor Carbonell's performance.

    Does Richard seeing Isabella in the Black Rock ruin the theory that a body has to be on the island for the MiB to impersonate it? Or is there something I'm missing?

    I'm really looking forward to seeing how the rest of the season plays out. As much as it seems that they're building towards an Epic Battle between Jacob and Smokey, there are a lot of wild cards that could disrupt any plans either of them have (Widmore, Ben, Sawyer, whoever). Something tells me that it's not going to be as simple as Army 1 vs Army 2.

  12. I really liked the episode, and felt like it gave us a lot of insight into Richard's character, as well as on the motivations of the Smoke Monster and Jacob. It did play out a lot like a Desmond episode for me, actually. I also feel like now a final battle seems more appropriately set up with some back-story behind it.

    Did anyone else notice the man who bought Richard's freedom was named Widfield? That similarity in name made me think of Widmore. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but that could possibly have some significance into Widmore's roots with the island.

  13. Great episode, can't wait for the recap!

    I wonder who ends up making the "rules" for the Others, Richard or Jacob? All that stuff about who gets to see Jacob, why there is a "leader" of the people Jacob brings (other than Richard), what those leaders ultimately end up knowing about the Island/Jacob/their mission, etc? For example, it occurs to me that I've never heard Widmore or Hawking (or Faraday) mention Jacob or the MiB. Do they have any idea about the larger picture or are they only interested in the Island as an object of power?

    So many questions, so little time...

  14. I enjoyed the episode, but I do think it has its rough patches. The scenes where Richard must try to survive bring the episodes momentum to a halt. The explanation that it was the ship that broke the statue is pretty lame. And I thought the ending would have worked better had it just ended on Locke. Instead we're shown that cool, but ultimately kind of pointless scene between Jacob and MIB that really only reiterates what we know about them. Two thoughts:

    - Is there any reason to keep the Man in Black's name from us?

    - Hurley's final words to Richard about stopping the MIB...is he really telling him what Isabella said or is he telling him what Jacob told him to tell him?

  15. JDR22 here...

    I have to say: AWESOME EPISODE! (and I don't normally type in all caps).

    This is up at the top of this season for me, and one of the best episodes of the entire show. I loved the decision to tell the story almost entirely in flash-back; I was riveted.

    The idea of the island being a "cork" that is keeping "evil" or "darkness" at bay is very cool to me. I guess they really were saving the world by pressing the button in the Swan Hatch.

    I'm curious how the pregnancy issues relate to this, and why Richard recruited Juliet to try and fix the problem. Is it that the ideal "candidate" has to be born on the island? That doesn't really make sense, because most of the candidates were born on the main land. Whatever the reason, it was important that woman be able to give birth on the island. Hopefully we'll learn why.

    Lastly, this new information gives more potential meaning to the Sideways time line. If our characters are dead (Hmmm), and in a form of "Hell" (I don't think it's that simple), then the Sideways may be a way for them to have a second chance. Perhaps redeeming yourself on the island earns you rebirth in the Sideways, where you have learned from your experience on the island, and can live again.

    Or maybe it's something else entirely. I look forward to finding out.

  16. In response to Anonymous:

    "The scenes where Richard must try to survive bring the episodes momentum to a halt."
    To me, this was fine, as it showed how desperate he was when the MiB showed up. It didn't come to a halt for me.

    "The explanation that it was the ship that broke the statue is pretty lame."
    I think it's possible that the statue has slowly corroded over time, being right on the coast of a salty sea. Add to that a giant tsunami and a massive ship crashing into it, and I don't think it's too far-fetched that it toppled the four-toed statue.

    "And I thought the ending would have worked better had it just ended on Locke. Instead we're shown that cool, but ultimately kind of pointless scene between Jacob and MIB that really only reiterates what we know about them."
    I think it was important to remind the audience who the players are and how they interact with each other. The last time we saw them together was at the beginning of the Season 5 finale, this gives new and casual viewers a refresher, while giving us hardcore fans a really cool scene. The MiB smashing the bottle is very ominous and effective, reminding us that there's more at stake than a guy who looks like Locke getting off the island.

    The outcome could literally unleash Hell.

  17. I'd liked the mirroring of Richard to Desmond in the episode. I wonder what this means in terms of Desmond's signficance to the Island.

    Was it Jacob then who was responsible for Desmond being there? Was he being set up to be Richard's replacement to the new "Jacob"?

    Is being Jacob's emissary then analagous to pushing the button. Is there an Island "fail-safe" and is that why the island is underwater in the flash-sideways?

  18. Seriously Morse, there were people who didn't like this episode? The ONLY weak thing for me was that which often plagues Lost: dodgy effects. Otherwise it was stellar. Cinematic, even.

    Richard's story was compelling and moving, and further layers were added to the Jacob/Man in Black conflict. I agree with Miles that Smokey clearly isn't good, but I'm still not sure whether that makes Jacob good either. There seems to be something slightly off about him, to me. Can't quite put my finger on what it is... but still.

    This to me added weight to the allegory of Jacob and Smokey not only as warring God-Satan figures but also as scientists. After all, they are (or at least were) men, and they really do seem to be carrying out experiments on the people that are brought to the island. Episode titles in the past have hinted at this too: 'The Constant' and 'Variable' for instant.

    I'm reminded of one of my favourite post-season 5 finale theories - that Jacob and the Man in Black are somehow scientists that have time-travelled from the future, and are using the island's unique properties to help with research into the human condition. I'm not saying this is what is happening, but the parallels are definately there.

    Finally, I agree with everyone else that Nestor Carbonell was excellent in this episode, and I think Jorge Garcia did brilliantly with his short screentime too - that scene between Richard and his dead wife was in my opinion one of Lost's strongest moments.

  19. I just wanted to point a couple of items I hadn't seen anyone comment on yet:

    -The Black Rock is apparently owned and captained by someone named Hanso. You may remember that the Dharma Initiative was financed and run by The Hanso Foundation, the philanthropic foundation founded by industrialist Alvar Hanso.

    -Jacob knows how to kick some ass and is apparently not apposed to doing so as his death scene with Ben and FLocke might have suggested. This begs the question: why didn't Jacob simply slap the knife out of Ben's hand and then hand his ass to him? Was Jacob's death more suicide than murder?

    -It's interesting that MiB instructed Richard to kill Jacob in EXACTLY the same terms that Dogan gave Sayid to kill FLocke. And in both cases the would-be assassin was told that his target was the root of all evil ("The Devil" and "Evil Incarnate").

    Ok, I guess that'll do.
    I have to say that I was a little disappointed with last night's episode. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really miss Daniel Faraday and all of the pseudo-scientific aspects of the show. I feel like a simple fight between absolute "Good and Evil" is just a bit too simple, not to mention played out (Dark Tower anyone?) for a show that I've come to love for it's nuance and originality. I'm really hoping for some major curve-balls as the season winds down. I still think this may be the case and feel that the heavy religious overtones of this season may be a red herring.
    All of that said, I still love Lost and have enjoyed every episode as well as the discussion it fosters here and elsewhere. Thanks to Morse for all the work you do here. It's very much appreciated.


  20. There are people who flat-out HATED this episode.

    I don't understand it, but it's the truth.

    Sorry for the lack of longer responses today, folks, but it's a busy one. I hope to respond to your specific points tonight.

  21. We already knew that Alvar Hanso captained the Black Rock from season 4, I think, where we saw Charles Widmore bidding on the journal at an auction. Back before we knew he grew up on the island, but that was the first real indication that he was anything more than Penny's disapproving father.

  22. The Hanso/Black Rock connection was also referenced on the Blast Door map.

  23. I really enjoyed this episode. One nitpick though: In "The Incident", we saw what was presumably the Black Rock approaching the Island during sunny, calm weather. Here we see it arriving during a gigantic storm.

  24. Resident01 - it would seem then that the ship arriving in calm weather, while the statue was still standing was an earlier ship that Jacob brought to the island. According to Jacob's statement to Richard, everyone previously brought was dead, so there was apparently no one of consequence on that boat.

    Yeah, I'm an apologist. But in fairness, it was never stated explicily that that arriving ship was the Black Rock.

  25. Noted. The Hanso/Black Rock connection = Old News. Please forgive my ignorance which, I'm sure, is vast.

    Miles, I think you're right about the ship we see at the beginning of "The Incident". It's likely just one in a long line (possibly going back to the dawn of humanity) of expeditions "finding" their way to the Island.

  26. I had considered that the ship in "The Incident" wasn't the Black Rock, but two similar looking ships arriving seemed a little too misleading for me. But I suppose it's more likely than them screwing up another continuity issue in their final season (and an important one at that).

    Is this the first time Jacob has interacted with someone (other than the MIB) who is (somewhat) aware of who he is? Has he ever explained himself to someone before?
    Is Richard the first person to hold the intermediary position?

  27. for the love of all that is holy- rewatch "the substitute" now!
    the interaction between richard and Flocke/MIB is repetitive of the interaction between MIB/Jacob and richard and MIB in their interactions...
    also illustrates how far richard would have to have fallen in faith to come back to the cross and dig it up and say he would come back to MIB...

  28. problem with Claire's characterization- in cabin fever, where locke met christian (presumably MIB)- locke asks about the baby and claire says nothing and christian says he is where is he supposed to be

  29. Todd, i feel like there is still missing information about what happened to Claire that we won't get until she has centric episode (complete with a sideways story where the Shepherds probably track her down in LA after finding her in Christian's will). He behavior doesn't mirror Sayid's at all in that scene. She definitely seemed more drunk or on something.

    I had a thought while driving tonight about Hugo. How big a moment would be if John Locke - the real, original, now dead John Locke - appeared to him? i'm not sure if it would shed light or spew a train wreck.

  30. gravy boat, that's an interesting point about Ben's mother. Richard seems kind enough to Little Ben from the beginning of the scene, but he never seems really interested until Ben says that he saw his dead mother on the island, and that she hadn't died there. It almost makes me think that Richard selected Ben for the leadership tract because he thought that he'd become a possible route to seeing Isabella again. It would explain Richard's initial protection of and later disappointment in Ben, as well as add a really nice subtext to an already great scene.

    I can sort of understand why people wouldn't like the episode, but I loved it. I've only had a chance to watch it once so far though, and it was almost overwhelming. I feel like I need to go back and watch it four times before I can say anything coherent about it.

    Does anyone know off the top of their heads the Bible verse that Richard was reading in the prison cell? I caught that it was Luke (possible chapter 4), but that was all I've gotten so far.

  31. Hey MMorse,

    The only people I could see HATING this episode are people on CHUD message boards. There are many a tool on CHUD. In fact, you're the only reason I go there.

    Any LOST fan worth their salt should see how great this installment was. I have a feeling the only people hating are the anti-religious types who hate the fact that spirituality and "Hell" are a big factor in the endgame.

    Personally, I love it.

  32. Hey MMorse,

    The only people I could see HATING this episode are people on CHUD message boards. There are many a tool on CHUD. In fact, you're the only reason I go there.

    Any LOST fan worth their salt should see how great this installment was. I have a feeling the only people hating are the anti-religious types who hate the fact that spirituality and "Hell" are a big factor in the endgame.

    Personally, I love it.

  33. Excellent episode! I was sold from the beginning. Just watched it again tonite and loved it even more.

    about to hit the hay, but wanted to add another mote to the hanso/black rock discussion. i believe it is in "the constant" where desmond finds widmore at an auction house. the things being auctioned are what looks like a painting of the black rock, as well as the diary of one Magnus Hanso, the last known relic of the lost ship the black rock. this diary is what widmore is bidding on and wins. tying widmore to this even more, i saw on another site that pointed out the guy's last name that "bought" richard was whitfield. "moor" is another word for field and whit could easily over time become "wid". coincidence? ;)

  34. GREAT point!! Locke is dead- why, unless the impersonation factor of Flocke is part of it- hasn't Hurley seen Locke- or why wouldn't Miles have spoken to Locke at all to learn that not only did Linus kill Jacob but Locke as well?

  35. Katie,

    The verse in question comes from the Book of Luke. It's verse 4. The visible portion in the shot is: "And he said, Verily I say unto you, “No prophet is accepted in his own country.”"

    Luke 4 has some other interesting potential connections to Lost. I'll talk more about them in the column.

  36. Thank you! That's really interesting. Especially since it looks like the verse before that references the proverb "Physician, heal thyself." Followed by the line about prophets not being accepted at home, it fits in nicely with the island and maybe suggests that these particular people were brought to the island because, for various reasons, they wouldn't be able to heal themselves where they were.

    Looking forward to the column!

  37. First off, absolutely AMAZING episode! Second, I'm fairly confident that there is a very definite reason that the MiB's name has been left from us. What if we are so focused on the fact that he lies, that we're missing small bits of truth? Perhaps, the comment that he makes very quickly in passing about Jacob stealing his body was true. All of the pieces are in place for MiB to be Aaron. The psychic says he's super evil, he says his mother is crazy (perhaps australian as well?), and he makes a reference to Jacob stealing his body.

    My bet is on the fact that MiB is Aaron and that somehow, for some reason, Jacob has his physical body, blonde hair, blue eyes, all that stuff. Not entirely sure how the timing would work out, but it is in fact the Island.

    I could be wrong (and very well possibly am) but it's at least something to think about.

  38. I liked the episode. Not much in the way of answers but a nice fleshing out of great character.

    The most interesting thing in the terms of the bigger picture is the cork-analogy obviously. But I'm not so sure that the MIB is the evil that is contained within the island. I much rather think that both Jacob and the MIB were supposed to be guardians of the island. It would fit nicely with the two-man job of pushing the button which seems to mirror the larger purpose of the island. I suspect that both Jacob und the MIB got specific powers to protect the island, but the MIB is bound to the island as long as Jacob is alive (maybe it's the other way around as well, but Jacob can leave to do specific things like choosing/touching the candidates). With Jacob gone the cork is destabilized (hence the soiled water in the temple) but still intact but with the MIB gone as well, the cork will shatter, the island will drown (?) and the evil, which I think is the infection, will spread all over the world.

  39. Conrad, interesting observations on Jacob and MIB. I didn't register his comments to suggest that Jacob literally stole his body, but that is an interesting observation. The only dispute or evidence I have against it is outside of the story of the show. I won't paste it here in case people don't cotton to knowing real world stuff that could affect their opinions. But if you're curious, check out the "Production Notes" on the entry for Jacob. They have details from the original casting call which would suggest some of your evidence is circumstantial.

    That said, though I believe they've had the end game played, they have illustrated that they are able to insert and adapt over time. (i.e. i'm certain that the only reason Jack and Hurley found Shannon's inhaler in the jungle was because of the line about it from the skit at Comic-con. and a writer put it in as an in-joke).

  40. Sorry, I meant to check out the Jacob entry on Lostpedia.com and look at "Production Notes" at the bottom of the page.

  41. Todd, on the idea of Hurley talking to Locke... It is actually hard to imagine what the real John Locke would make of all this and how he would handle the post death knowledge of what happened and how he was played. I'm one of those folks who hopes that the real John Locke found peace or redemption or satisfaction in some way.

    But it seems like a perfect scene for late in the season or a finale. I kind of wonder if an upcoming Hurley episode (we haven't seen one yet) will feature a calvacade of dead characters.

    I love that Jack is totally down with the idea the Hurley can talk to dead people - or at least Jacob. I feel like a sign of Jack's redemptive arc is that he's been treating Hurley like an equal and not an assistant.

  42. Great comments here on a great episode! I also agree that the 1st mate, Witfield is a relative to Whidmore, as stated above referencing the meaning of the "Moor" and "Field". This makes Whidmore's bidding on the 1st mate's journal that much more meaningful.
    I also agree that signs are pointing to Aaron as being the MiB. I also took it as a literal sense that Jacob took MiB's body. The duality of who is good and evil is probably a red herring. After all, the Lord himself has wrath so it is hard to tell who is who at this point. Both seem to forgive and leave choice up to the individual.

    That being said. I do have some comments about the Black Rock that I hope you enjoy. According to what we know, Black Rock left port in 1845, and later was lost at sea. We saw that in this episode, it was arriving at the Canary Islands in 1867. That is 22 years that it was sailing. Perspective - The Pilgrims journey from England to Plymouth took only 66 DAYS!

    It is my belief that Black Rock was what we saw at the beginning of "The Incident" and had probably been to the island more than once, probably several times. Bringing slaves to the island to help conduct human condition experiments. This is why Smokey killed everyone as soon as they arrived (returned) as he was familiar with the crew. This also can be read into when Jacob was telling Richard that all previous visitors are now dead.

    Notations in the 1st mate's journal would have precise bearring on how to arrive, and leave the island. Question is, and this irks me a little, is how the journal made its way to Madagascar 7 years later, which would have been roughly 1852. That's 15 years before this episode. Unless it was planted there to hide the vessels voyages and existence.

    I have more thoughts, but this is long already. Sorry. I get carried away smometimes.

  43. can someone explain to me why they feel that MiB is aaron? I just can't see it, even with all the time hopping...

  44. On the latest Lost podcast, Damon and Carlton confirm that it was the Black Rock in "The Incident," and that immediately after that scene a huge storm popped up. Sounds to me like they forgot their own continuity, but at least they addressed it.

  45. I agree with you Todd. Personally, I don't think Aaron is Jacob either. But I REALLY don't get the Smokey connection.

    I assume that people are taking Locke's statement to Kate in "Recon" that "Aaron has a crazy mother too" to mean that Claire is in fact his mother.

    You know, the girl that he just bitch slapped...

  46. Sorry, I guess I'm not done on the "Jacob took the MIB's body" comment leading to Jacob is "wearing" the MIB's body.

    I could easily be wrong, but the simplest explanation of that comment is that the MIB ceased to be flesh and blood and became the Black Smoke/Smoke Thing/Smoke Monster. He blames Jacob for this.

    However, MIB had or developed shape shifting abilities, and so he can assume different forms - presumably including his own. So he can appear as himself or others (apparently dead people), but he is not actually flesh and blood. So even as he is standing before Richard and saying that he has no body, he doesn't. He's a monster (Cue Buster Bluth...).

  47. right there with ya- i think it was just to foreshadow (which they have been doing in SPADES this season) the upcoming MiB/Jacob episode